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I do not agree that society, if not having to pay social security taxes (hence taxes taken for the security of society) and all the other taxes that fund the state welfare systems, would help others as much as you would like to think. And assuming that a majority of people would help me, is just that, an assumption. If I had to make an assumption about people (churches in name, since that is the particular argument you keep bringing up) in my area, they would not help me, or anyone else. That being said, I do not know anyone in my area that has a job, not for the lack of ambition or skill, there is just nothing here, this area was industrial, and when industry left, people lost all hope. I know people that go across the country for a few extra bucks an hour.

For the people here that do have money, and jobs, most seem to have been given the silver spoon(“old money”), and think that if they have it there is no reason anyone else cant get it, which should be the case (even though they didn’t earn it). I know of no one person in the position to help me that would voluntarily, unless it was an election year.

Society is responsible for all children, even if some individuals do not have them. Children are our future. If society doesn’t take responsibility for its children and teach them and give them the things necessary for success, then we are responsible for all the messed up things to come, the loss of jobs, laziness, the raising of crime(in particular the ones against other people). I feel that when a child (including teens) commits a crime (Columbine for example), it is societies fault, we may as well been there whispering in their ears “you don’t matter, the only way you will be heard is to do this horrible thing”, because we did not provide for them all equally, be it financially or emotionally.

For the record, churches do not represent a society as a whole, or society at all, really. Churches are organizations, just as the KKK is an organization or the Black Panthers. None of these organizations are required to do crap to or for anyone, and as a basic rule, they will only help those they see fit, based on religious belief, skin color, or any of the other trivial things.

Who is to say that the criteria that receiving social security is right or unbiased? I am not saying it is perfect by any means, but I think it is probably a whole lot less biased than any private organization, such as a church.

Church members were not lining up at my door trying to help with funeral expenses and the like. I live in a small town, everyone pretty much knows me, even if I do not recognize their face, I know their name, everyone knew what happened. You know who paid for his funeral arrangements? Besides the 255$ that social security contributed, I did, our kids did, out of their college funds, and a few other contributors that were not church related. If I had been a church goer, I suspect the financial burden would have been a lot less. And to be fair the Black Panthers and the KKK didn’t line up either.

The only organizations that did help were the veterans organizations, not because I was a member or he was a member, but because they genuinely cared about my kids and me, their wives brought me meals to feed my family, because they knew that I was completely devastated, and knew I needed help, because if I didn’t have it it would eventually send me over the edge(was already close, being in my early 20′s and basically widowed with 3 kids). And even though I do not personally know any bikers, guess what? I received an envelope of money from them, not taking credit for a certain group, simply “your friendly community bikers.”

I would bet that bikers, veterans, the beaten down, misunderstood, and unappreciated, of society would help more than any of the “upstanding” or “elite” of society, just based on my personal experience.<<< assumption

And as for the government of the USA; I seem to remember a line in a prominent government document “for the people, by the people.” I am assuming that that means the government was meant to serve their people, via elected officials.

I do agree that the people could probably do an okay job of delegating their money to what they seen fit, but there are those in the American public, with those brilliant pieces of plastic, that seem to mess up the whole paper money thing.

In general the reason government is around is so when everything goes to hell we can point at one person or group of people and say “get them!”, and when they get it right, when they do something that is actually helpful, we can say “look at that guy I voted for, he is so awesome.” If the average Joe was in charge of the government, we would be in big trouble (bigger than the however many trillion we are in already), politicians are there because they have fancy educations and are supposed to be smarter than the average bear. In general, looking at the average credit report of an average American, we are morons, we buy stupid things, that we do not need, with money we do not have.

So instead of buying the church a big screen (with a credit card, maybe?) for Super Bowl Sunday, maybe contribute that money to an individual, buy a family a car, or put a few church’s money together and build a home for the people with the lowest per capita income of the town, not of the church. That is if the church really wants to be responsible for society, one family at a time. Do it quietly, it doesn’t have to be a publicity stunt, to get more people to come to church and “save” themselves. If all the churches in every county got together and did such a thing, say once a year, in the US, that would provide thousands of homes for the less fortunate.

I am not saying that churches do not have their place in society, but a whole organization, outside of the government, should not be responsible for society.

So long as ALL of the people are happy with it there is nothing immoral about it. But when ONE person disagrees it is theft, which is immoral. I don’t want health coverage because modern doctors kill people and have an average life span of 52 years. Why would I take advice from people like that?

My premise is that the individual can spend his money with more efficiency and more discernment the any bureaucratic mess Uncle Sam invents.

I feel that society should help you and your children. I disagree with the way they currently attempt this. I as leader of this church help many that social security won’t.

After re-reading your comments and this reply I must add: You use the word ‘deserve ‘. I completely disagree with the use of the word deserve. They have done nothing to earn, therefore they don’t deserve.

Nobody should pay (income/property) taxes.

Churches should have no power over ANYTHING. Period.

and they SHOULD pay taxes on EVERTHING just like everyone else.

Idiots.